View Full Version : Little Big Planet recalled / delayed until 10/27
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/10/17/scee-littlebigplanet-delayed-worldwide-due-to-quran-references/
Apparently Media Molecule thought it would be a good idea to put an islamic song with Quran references in the game's OST, so now people are translating the song and finding it offensive.
One of the songs has the following lyrics in it:
1- In the 18th second: "كل نفس ذائقة الموت" ("kollo nafsin tha'iqatol mawt", literally: 'Every soul shall have the taste of death').
2- Almost immediately after, in the 27th second: "كل من عليها فان" ("kollo man alaiha fan", literally: 'All that is on earth will perish').
Both those statements are perfectly true. Some people just set out to be offended.
sj_hurst
10-17-08, 12:30 PM
Both those statements are perfectly true. Some people just set out to be offended.
:stupid:
Besides just fairy tales, there's quite a lot of truth/wisdom in religion as well.. including Islam.
sounds like an islamic emo band to me
You know, people getting offended over religious shit offends me...
I think the Muslims are the one offended by this, not other people. I read somewhere that it's offensive to muslims for phrases / quotes from the Quran to be used in music.
You know, people getting offended over religious shit offends me...
I agree.
Anyway the PS Blog says that the game will be released on the 27th in North America now. http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/10/17/littlebigplanet-release-update/
In a related note the place I pre-ordered the game from is shipping it today according to the website (http://www.gameexpress.com/product_detail.cfm?UPC=711719814825); although I don't know if I'll get it until next week on Wednesday when Star Ocean and Castlevania ship.
Greatergatsby
10-17-08, 02:13 PM
Nobody complained about Kakuto Chojin's use of the quran. They removed it from the shelves and people were glad to be spared the agony of playing it.
The hills internets are alive with the sound of music ignorant hatred.
It's both funny and sad to see all the people getting up in arms over this situation. People saying it's a terrorist act, people saying they hate muslims because Little Big Planet was delayed, people saying they're going to sell their PS3s because the game was delayed a week, etc.
It'll be sad to see the kind of stuff we'll see in piles in the first couple weeks of the game. I'm certain there will be anti-muslim levels created, bunches of levels made using that song as background music, etc. I guess the beauty of a game like this is that people can do whatever they choose to do, no matter how brightly it makes their ignorance shine.
I'm offended by being offended by people that are offended. :hmm:
ItsNoot
10-17-08, 05:14 PM
I'm offended by being offended by people that are offended. :hmm:
That offends me :mad:
That offends me :mad:
I'm honestly kind of glad LBP was delayed a week. It gives me more time to sink my teeth into the following games:
Saints Row 2
Golden Axe: Beast Rider
Dead Space
Fable 2
I just rented Golden Axe and Dead Space today, so I'll be trying them out late tonight. Fable 2 comes out the day LBP was supposed to come out, 10/22 (or 10/21 if it ships quickly)
You know, people getting offended over religious shit offends me...
Referring to religion as "shit" offends me. anger rising RISINGINGSIGN!!11111111
I really, reaaaaaally don't understand how those 2 lines can be offensive to people, is it so terrible to use lines from the Qur'an?
People don't like being told they are gonna die some day?
I guess they expect they're gonna live forever... Probably the same assholes that block that intersection near my house, despite the signs that say "do not block intersection."
opus512
10-17-08, 09:23 PM
I'm sorry, but why include them in the first place? What was the point? It's not like no one knows the world is dealing with stupid radical religious shit right now, and they go and stick some secret verses into the game for what reason again?
So again, what was even the point?
I'm sorry, but why include them in the first place? What was the point? It's not like no one knows the world is dealing with stupid radical religious shit right now, and they go and stick some secret verses into the game for what reason again?
So again, what was even the point?
Maybe they're pleasant sounding songs.
opus512
10-18-08, 05:35 AM
Maybe they're pleasant sounding songs.
Or, more likely maybe they (the developers) are fucking stupid :lol:
Wolfeman
10-18-08, 07:40 AM
Or, more likely maybe they (the developers) are fucking stupid :lol:
Or we are just so fucking touchy when it comes to respecting every peoples point of view that we react - violently - when something even remotely or possibly offensive is brought to light.
opus512
10-18-08, 09:00 AM
Or we are just so fucking touchy when it comes to respecting every peoples point of view that we react - violently - when something even remotely or possibly offensive is brought to light.
No, I simply believe that actions need some kind of basis. What was the basis of the action of adding freaking Islamic versus hidden in a computer game? What is the point?
The only possible point I can see is to provoke. Where there other religious songs in the game? Maybe a nice Jewish ditty? A good old fashioned Baptists roof raiser? Some evangelical arm waving humming? No?
Again, there was no point. Stupid shit for no point annoys me. Now if they come out and say yeah we put them there on purpose to prove the point of how touchy people are, fine, at leas it would be honest. The versus are clearly inflammatory.
Have they offered *any* explanation as to their inclusion yet? Anything at all?
Media Molecule picked a lot of popular songs and licensed them for use in LBP, and the song with Arabic in it has been around for years and is a well known and popular song apparently. Maybe they knew the lyrics but didn't think it would cause any issues.
Like any of us would recognise a Quran verse if we heard it sampled in a song...
Was anyone offended when Enigma had those hits with Gregorian chants in them? Those were religious text most likely, but nobody cared, because nobody should care, because it's a fucking completely inoffensive song...
Wolfeman
10-18-08, 03:38 PM
No, I simply believe that actions need some kind of basis. What was the basis of the action of adding freaking Islamic versus hidden in a computer game? What is the point?
Because the song sounded cool to the development team would be my guess? That should be as good a reason as any; Not everything is a political commentary or jab at X :D
No, I simply believe that actions need some kind of basis. What was the basis of the action of adding freaking Islamic versus hidden in a computer game? What is the point?
The only possible point I can see is to provoke. Where there other religious songs in the game? Maybe a nice Jewish ditty? A good old fashioned Baptists roof raiser? Some evangelical arm waving humming? No?
Again, there was no point. Stupid shit for no point annoys me. Now if they come out and say yeah we put them there on purpose to prove the point of how touchy people are, fine, at leas it would be honest. The versus are clearly inflammatory.
Have they offered *any* explanation as to their inclusion yet? Anything at all?
Really do they need that much reason to put a song in a game that may be slightly religious? I thought you guys had a free country over there, but apparantly you aren't free to put whatever music you want into a game, because you'll be accused of having a secret agenda to offend muslims! Maybe its just a good song? I'm sure there are alot of games out there that have music that doesn't exactly pertain to what is going on, but that it is just a good song and can set the mood they want. Same goes for movies, not all songs in movies have to do with exactly what is going on, sometimes its just a good song.
ukstatboy
10-18-08, 07:58 PM
Just remember that Sony hates their customers. The only thing that has surprised me is that LBP doesn't declare Jihad on other saved games and deletes them.
sj_hurst
10-18-08, 10:55 PM
Really do they need that much reason to put a song in a game that may be slightly religious? I thought you guys had a free country over there, but apparantly you aren't free to put whatever music you want into a game, because you'll be accused of having a secret agenda to offend muslims! Maybe its just a good song? I'm sure there are alot of games out there that have music that doesn't exactly pertain to what is going on, but that it is just a good song and can set the mood they want. Same goes for movies, not all songs in movies have to do with exactly what is going on, sometimes its just a good song.
say what? Did the U.S. decide to pull the songs from the game or was that Sony's doing? Hell, Sony is not even an American company.
Also, according the gamespot.com article i read, it was Sony Europe that first made the call to pull the songs.. then, the decision went international.
Like any of us would recognise a Quran verse if we heard it sampled in a song...
Was anyone offended when Enigma had those hits with Gregorian chants in them? Those were religious text most likely, but nobody cared, because nobody should care, because it's a fucking completely inoffensive song...
Enigma had some cool sounding shit. :headbang:
Really do they need that much reason to put a song in a game that may be slightly religious? I thought you guys had a free country over there, but apparantly you aren't free to put whatever music you want into a game, because you'll be accused of having a secret agenda to offend muslims! Maybe its just a good song? I'm sure there are alot of games out there that have music that doesn't exactly pertain to what is going on, but that it is just a good song and can set the mood they want. Same goes for movies, not all songs in movies have to do with exactly what is going on, sometimes its just a good song.
We are free to do whatever we want as long as we don't offend the muslims. :ugh: :P
But SJ is correct it wasn't the US that pulled it.
say what? Did the U.S. decide to pull the songs from the game or was that Sony's doing? Hell, Sony is not even an American company.
Also, according the gamespot.com article i read, it was Sony Europe that first made the call to pull the songs.. then, the decision went international.
sorry, directed at Opus, who felt that something shouldn't be done unless you can guaruntee it won't offend anyone, which is virtually impossible to do as it seems everyone will be offended by something.
sj_hurst
10-20-08, 10:37 AM
That's true. We should have freedom of speech within the legal limits (i.e. no shouting "fire" in crowded theater or "bomb" on airplane) even if it offends special interest groups. However, people also have the right to get offended and voice their discontent. But they sure as hell do not have the right to turn to violence when offended. /recalls torching of embassies in response to Mohammad cartoons.
dookiebot
10-20-08, 10:49 AM
This is stupid.
If some Islamists are offended by verses from the Qu'ran in songs, when the song is playing in the game just have text appears that says "If you are offended by the use of the Qu'ran in this song the name of the band is XXX and they live in XXX and record in studio XXX"
Problem solved, no delay.
This is stupid.
If some Islamists are offended by verses from the Qu'ran in songs, when the song is playing in the game just have text appears that says "If you are offended by the use of the Qu'ran in this song the name of the band is XXX and they live in XXX and record in studio XXX"
Problem solved, no delay.
Yeah they should ship the game with a bonus suicide bomber vest to make up for the offense. :rolleyes:
opus512
10-20-08, 11:36 AM
Really do they need that much reason to put a song in a game that may be slightly religious? I thought you guys had a free country over there, but apparantly you aren't free to put whatever music you want into a game, because you'll be accused of having a secret agenda to offend muslims! Maybe its just a good song? I'm sure there are alot of games out there that have music that doesn't exactly pertain to what is going on, but that it is just a good song and can set the mood they want. Same goes for movies, not all songs in movies have to do with exactly what is going on, sometimes its just a good song.
Your free to do whatever the hell you want to do as long as you're ready to accept the consequences, whether you agree with the consequences or not. Freedom ain't free, bitch, heh.
I never said not to do it, but if you're going to do something that everyone in the fucking world knows will piss certain people off, then don't act all indignant when certain people get pissed off.
Fuck the Muslims, and the Jews and Christians to I make sure to get everyone lumped in. I could give a shit less what they think. But again, if you're gonna do shit that all but the most ignorant dumbass in the world knows will have consequences, then fucking deal with it. At the very, very least, have a good fucking reason ready when the shit hits the fan.
And who accused who of having "a secret agenda to offend Muslims"? Where the hell did that come from? Certainly wasn't pulled out of my ass, heh.
sj_hurst
10-20-08, 02:28 PM
It is stupid to piss them off for no good reason (realizing the U.S. media, etc. has done it's duty to avoid that very thing, unlike the Europeans). But still, it's equally stupid to resort to violence when offended by something. Those people still exist in a primitive, outmoded culture and it's time that they get with the times. :D
Your free to do whatever the hell you want to do as long as you're ready to accept the consequences, whether you agree with the consequences or not. Freedom ain't free, bitch, heh.
I never said not to do it, but if you're going to do something that everyone in the fucking world knows will piss certain people off, then don't act all indignant when certain people get pissed off.
Fuck the Muslims, and the Jews and Christians to I make sure to get everyone lumped in. I could give a shit less what they think. But again, if you're gonna do shit that all but the most ignorant dumbass in the world knows will have consequences, then fucking deal with it. At the very, very least, have a good fucking reason ready when the shit hits the fan.
And who accused who of having "a secret agenda to offend Muslims"? Where the hell did that come from? Certainly wasn't pulled out of my ass, heh.
I wouldn't of known that that particular song would of been offensive to anyone, isn't it safe to assume that they wouldn't of known too? In fact I don't think anyone in the thread knew why it was offensive until the reason was posted several posts down.
sj_hurst
10-20-08, 10:53 PM
I wouldn't of known that that particular song would of been offensive to anyone, isn't it safe to assume that they wouldn't of known too? In fact I don't think anyone in the thread knew why it was offensive until the reason was posted several posts down.
They probably would've eventually, especially if the song/s were in their language.
Islam holds many things sacred, not just text/scriptures. As others have previously stated on Slackercentral, the Middle-eastern societies (at least, the Muslims) never went through a Renaissance or Enlightenment period in their history. To recreate the human form in paintings and artistry is considered blasphemous. Consider what happened in Afghanistan when the Taliban took over. They went around destroying national treasures, such as paintings, sculptures and statues.
Yes, they consider the Buddha statue a false idol. But they also forbid artistic recreations of the human form, or so I've seen in some documentary on Afghanistan, so they destroyed the non-religious paintings as well.
http://www.rawa.org/statues.htm
As i've said before.. it's kinda ridiculous in this day & age and they should get with the times.
If anybody desperately wants the game and can't wait a week, I think Target stores will have it for sale today. I tried to buy a copy yesterday and had one in my hands. The guy said the computer wouldn't let him sell it until 10/21.
Anyway I thought about it last night and I can wait the week before getting it. The servers won't be up until then anyway. I'm also playing Golden Axe and Saints Row 2 at the moment, so i don't need more distraction.
opus512
10-21-08, 12:30 PM
I wouldn't of known that that particular song would of been offensive to anyone, isn't it safe to assume that they wouldn't of known too? In fact I don't think anyone in the thread knew why it was offensive until the reason was posted several posts down.
It's not a matter of 'that song' being offensive, it's a matter of any song that Quranic versus in them that they claim is offensive. Personally I think it's bullshit, I agree with you, but even I knew that radical Islamists don't like their holy scripture being put to music, heh.
My personal view on it is if it has to do with Islam, it needs to have a specific point. Don't care what the point it, as long as there's a point. Otherwise, leave it the fuck alone. Maybe if the bastards get ignored for a while they'll chill out, though I doubt it, heh.
Actually, after rereading the article linked in the thread starter, the song was licensed by some music house or some shit, so the dev's might not have known what exactly it involved, which I can handle, mistakes are made, shit happens, but clean it up when it does is all I'm saying.
Wolfeman
10-21-08, 01:59 PM
From the musician whose songs have inspired outrage... (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/using-koran-quotes-in-music-quite-normal)
They mention Resistance in that article. I wonder if Sony got more pain then they bargained for with the Manchester Cathedral thing so they decided to take the safe approach with Little Big Planet.
Wolfeman
10-21-08, 02:04 PM
And what about comments from M. Zuhdi Jasser, M.D. (http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/10/21/american-muslim-group-leader-slams-little-big-planet-recall), head of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy...
sj_hurst
10-21-08, 03:09 PM
Well, there's no outrage yet that i've seen. But you could hardly blame Sony for wanting to back off to avoid a possible incident. Better safe than sorry, since the Muslims do have a track record of going mideval on your ass.
from Wolfe's link..
Muslims cannot benefit from freedom of expression and religion and then turn around and ask that anytime their sensibilities are offended that the freedom of others be restricted... The free market allows for expression of disfavor by simply not purchasing a game that may be offensive...
[Mohammed] defended the rights of his enemies to critique him in any way even if it was offensive to his own Islamic sensibilities or respect for Koranic scripture... To demand that [the game] be withdrawn is predicated on a society which gives theocrats who wish to control speech far more value than the central principle of freedom of expression upon which the very practice and freedom of religion is based.
The fact that the music writer is a devout Muslim should highlight that at the core of this issue is not about offending ‘all Muslims,’ but only about freedom of expression and the free market...
Clearly, they're mixing western values with Muslim beliefs here. Again the incident following the Mohammad 'toons serves as a painful reminder.
Slacker
10-22-08, 12:35 PM
Like Gibb said, it looks like it's out there if you're dying to play it. Hilariously, people are treating the original version as some kind of collector's item, trying to sell it on eBay for $200. :lol: Fortunately they are failing. :bigthumb:
Like Gibb said, it looks like it's out there if you're dying to play it. Hilariously, people are treating the original version as some kind of collector's item, trying to sell it on eBay for $200. :lol: Fortunately they are failing. :bigthumb:
apparently bestbuy.com shipped them on 10/20 to all preorders, which is pretty funny. You'd think such a big online site would know about the recall.
sj_hurst
10-22-08, 04:20 PM
Best Buy has pretty much elevated its status to a top tier retailer, much like Wal-Mart.. not as big as Wal-Mart, but big enough to strong arm their suppliers.. not the other way around.
I don't doubt that they know about it already. It's just that they care more about profit than Sony's legal issues and whatever other problems Sony might face. Besides, Best Buy itself is within their legal rights to sell copies that they already bought & paid for from XYZ supplier/s. I tend to think of them as Greed Buy anymore, but they've done nothing wrong that i can see.
Only time I'd buy anything at Best Buy is if I know it's going to be full price everywhere else as well. Oh and I reserved Little Big Planet there for the pre-order bonuses, but I might not even buy the game there since I already have the codes. :P
vBulletin® v3.8.1, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.