PLD in games

[Simian]

PLD or Permanent lanscape damage, is becoming more common, I thnik it should be in all games, I mean if you have a rocket launcher, or a couple dozen grenades, why can't you blow the wall up? It usually just leaves a black mark, but I want to be able to blow through the damn thing, and get to the bosses earlier :p

[Ambience]

Originally posted by CoolDude365
PLD or Permanent lanscape damage, is becoming more common, I thnik it should be in all games, I mean if you have a rocket launcher, or a couple dozen grenades, why can't you blow the wall up? It usually just leaves a black mark, but I want to be able to blow through the damn thing, and get to the bosses earlier :p

But what if you blow through a wall that has nothing on the other side? Would you fall off the end of the world?

[Simian]

probably...

[DUKE HARDKNOCK]

Ok, I know a little bit about architecture in games so I'll step in here.

Architecture is a right b*tch.

Pretty much all first-person games use so-called negative space for creating the gameworld. Picture a great big block of stone from which you want to carve a statue. This means you have to chop away bits to create the shape you desire. Mapping in most FPSs works more or less the same way.

So what you get are, essentially, enclosed areas which you can only view from within. The "walls" are only walls in the loosest sense, since they really have no volume - they are only impenetrable surfaces. You're on the inside of a box, outside of which is only what may be described as a void. Think of it as walking through an old set of a Western with buildings at each side of the road which are really just flat cutouts with doors and windows in them; there's nothing on the other side.

When you start punching a hole through a "wall", which has no thickness and has something resembling a black hole on the other side, you usually end up with graphical errors as you're stepping into that void (anyone remember using the no-clipping cheat in DOOM and walking through the walls?).

Apart from that, the damaging of architecture is hard enough to do since you're actually changing it - creating new vertices and thus adding bits of archticture as you go around blasting holes into everything.

This can be done, as demonstrated in Red Faction, but nonetheless it's tricky to implement. And then, of course, you get to the inevitable problems inherent in architecture - it's immobile, it's not a collection of seperate models, it doesn't obey to the laws of physics. This allows disconnected things like bridges and pipes to float in the air or ceilings from caving in after you blast all supporting pillars.

You can create hugely thick walls in certain games, of course, especially in a "rocky" environment, but what about a game like Deus Ex? If you shoot at a "building", you wouldn't expect there to be no inside but only dense rock, would you?

Truly deformable architecture would be cool, but right now it's only really practical in games like Magic Carpet and Populous: The Beginning, where you only have to worry about the shape of the landscape (which incidentally is also handily bound to limits by the presence of the sea and an invisible ceiling).

[Ambience]

You just have to make a breakable brush. You also have to be smart enough not to use it on any of the walls that seperate the game area from the void.

[Frostic]

I'll translate what Blidd said. You would fall out of the world and it would be more complicated to code too.

[DUKE HARDKNOCK]

Originally posted by Ambience
You just have to make a breakable brush. You also have to be smart enough not to use it on any of the walls that seperate the game area from the void.

See, there's the problem. You can only apply it on certain areas, and it's rather dumb if you can (for example) blast holes the size of buildings through solid rock walls but can't even put a dent in masonry.

Originally posted by Frostic
I'll translate what Blidd said. You would fall out of the world and it would be more complicated to code too.

Well, I suppose you could put it like that, yes. :rolleyes:

:P

[Ambience]

Originally posted by Blidd


See, there's the problem. You can only apply it on certain areas, and it's rather dumb if you can (for example) blast holes the size of buildings through solid rock walls but can't even put a dent in masonry.



Well, I suppose you could put it like that, yes. :rolleyes:

:P

Then you just design the outside wall textures to look like strong titanium alloy that is 500 meters thick, and that no weapon can penetrate.

See, it's not the technology that needs help. The games just need better writers. :)

[Kermit]

To do something like that would take a lot more time for each game.

Now... think of it from the programers point of view. A company like sierra that has, say 15-20 people working on one game. Those 15-20 people are making 100+g's a year. Now... that's 1.5 to 2 million a year in payroll alone! To program this would add... oh... say an extra 3-6 months onto the game. (or, in the case of Dynamax, 3 years. HEHE) That's quite a lot more money. And as much as you all pirate.... THEY CAN'T REALLY AFFORD IT! It's not practical yet.

Now... if someone were to just take the time, make some libraries, and design an engine with that sorta stuff built in... then all the game could have it with little or no extra effort.

But.. then you have to find someone willing to do the initial work.

[Ambience]

Originally posted by Kermit
To do something like that would take a lot more time for each game.

Now... think of it from the programers point of view. A company like sierra that has, say 15-20 people working on one game. Those 15-20 people are making 100+g's a year. Now... that's 1.5 to 2 million a year in payroll alone! To program this would add... oh... say an extra 3-6 months onto the game. (or, in the case of Dynamax, 3 years. HEHE) That's quite a lot more money. And as much as you all pirate.... THEY CAN'T REALLY AFFORD IT! It's not practical yet.

Now... if someone were to just take the time, make some libraries, and design an engine with that sorta stuff built in... then all the game could have it with little or no extra effort.

But.. then you have to find someone willing to do the initial work.

Now let's take 3dfx for example. They get paid all that money, play video games all day and download MP3 files. Same goes with video game programmers. What we need to do is send a cattle prod up their behinds pay them less money, and hire more writers! Once that is complete, I shall rule the world!