Protection from Terrorists?

[Sylver]

We all know about September 11th and all of the innocent people that died that day.

What do you think that the government should do to protect us from terrorists and prevent something like the September 11th from happening again?

Is bombing really the answer?

I know that the government has made more security measures in the airlines, but honestly will that really help prevent terrorists?

[FluxCapacitor]

There is nothing I can see that we can do. As long as we are here there will always be people who hate us. The more people we kill and bomb the more people will hate us. There has always been terrorism, and as long as people have differences of opinion there always will be.

[opus512]

Change our foriegn policy to reflect reality.

[dookiebot]

We shold make Islam the national religion, ban all other religions, any sharing a different religion than Islam with another American should be executed, and we should bomb Isreal.

That will protect us from terrorists.

[Dr. Feelgood]

Originally posted by opus512
Change our foriegn policy to reflect reality.

Amen! I said that last year, though, and I got an anal reaming. lol :)

[ItsNoot]

Originally posted by Dr. Feelgood


Amen! I said that last year, though, and I got an anal reaming. lol :)

That might of had something to do with the time frame and the sharpness in your tongue mate. It was only a few hours in ;), in fact, I don't even think the other plane had hit the pentagon yet, lol.

That said, I agree :D I've been saying for a while now this country should stop carrying it's nutsack over it's shoulder and tuck it in and play nice with the rest of the world. I hope we figure it out soon.

[dookiebot]

Originally posted by Dr. Feelgood


Amen! I said that last year, though, and I got an anal reaming. lol :)

I concur with noot.


I was one of the guys that analed you last year.

Your wording was what set me off. Back then I imagined you on one of the hijacked planes people screaming as the plane bears down on the WTC and you looking at the screaming passenger and saying with a smile "This is what happens when you piss too many people off". The wording of you as if any of the people who died that day had anything to do with foreign policy other than they happened to be easy targets for a group of people hoping to kill as many as they could.

But thats in the past, I realized after the fact what you meant and I personally apologized to you and removed whatever I said to you from my post.

[Dr. Feelgood]

Yeah guys. I hear you. I do have a propensity to say things at the wrong time in the wrong way :(

However, I now try to make a conscious effort to be sympathetic to the context.

[dookiebot]

ya but I apologized, you accepted so it's all good like cherry wood now. :D

[opus512]

Originally posted by Dr. Feelgood


Amen! I said that last year, though, and I got an anal reaming. lol :)

So did I man, I got called anti-American, go read the old thread in OT :P

[opus512]

Originally posted by Dr. Feelgood
Yeah guys. I hear you. I do have a propensity to say things at the wrong time in the wrong way :(

Nuh uh!




















:D

[Hydra]

Originally posted by Sylver
We all know about September 11th and all of the innocent people that died that day.

What do you think that the government should do to protect us from terrorists and prevent something like the September 11th from happening again?

Is bombing really the answer?

I know that the government has made more security measures in the airlines, but honestly will that really help prevent terrorists?

It might be a start is America doesn't start huffing and puffing and trying to blow everyone's houses down for one.

Second might be to look at the reasons WHY Sept 11 happened, and I don't mean why your government failed to protect you, I mean why did the terrorists give up their lives just to spit in your eye.

[opus512]

Originally posted by Wamphyr


It might be a start is America doesn't start huffing and puffing and trying to blow everyone's houses down for one.

Second might be to look at the reasons WHY Sept 11 happened, and I don't mean why your government failed to protect you, I mean why did the terrorists give up their lives just to spit in your eye.

Well, to me it's pretty obvious. IMO, Osama has a personal vendetta against us for bailing on him after Afgahnistan with the Russians.

Also, our foreign policy comes into play, regardless of whether one agrees with it or not.

As for Isreal, we will never drop support for them, we have too close of ties, not gonna happen. But, we could be a little more realistic about the support we give them, at wat level and what type.

As for the terrorists, they are fanatics, doesn't matter who what or where, they were ready to go for it, fanatic bastiges, one and all, they have no compassion, all is righteous and rationalized.

As for huffing and puffing, heh, I think any country that experienced an attack on that scale would be doing at least some posturing, and also some retaliation of their own. No way you can tell me Australia would have just shrugged something like that off. The US just happens to be in the unique position of being able to go it alone if we have to.

Not to argue the point of going it alone one way or the other, just that we are in the position to do so.

[Hydra]

Originally posted by opus512


Well, to me it's pretty obvious. IMO, Osama has a personal vendetta against us for bailing on him after Afgahnistan with the Russians.

That's one terrorist, there's a lot more out there. What about all the other terrorists, what did they have against the US?
The usual answer is that they are simple minded fools, but Mohammed Atta was fairly intelligent.


As for huffing and puffing, heh, I think any country that experienced an attack on that scale would be doing at least some posturing, and also some retaliation of their own. No way you can tell me Australia would have just shrugged something like that off. The US just happens to be in the unique position of being able to go it alone if we have to.

Not to argue the point of going it alone one way or the other, just that we are in the position to do so.

Actually the huffing and puffing was directed towards Bush wanting to attack Iraq.

I agreed with Afghanistan (Still do), but not with Iraq. It's always attack now, show proof later.
Even though the US suffered a year ago, I don't think it gives you the right to wander the globe attacking any country you want without support, that's counter productive IMHO.
Is attacking Iraq going to win you any friends? No.
Is it going to produce some enemies? Yes.
How is that going to help you at all? It's just going to inspire more anti-US sentiment around the world, god knows the arabs aren't going to sit by while you pick their region apart.

Sympathy for Sept. 11 only goes so far, I think Bush has run far enough.
Thankfully this isn't OT, or I would get attacked for being an Australian who has no right to have an opinion on it.

[opus512]

I'm with you on the Iraq arguement.

[PaleDuke]

Originally posted by Wamphyr

Second might be to look at the reasons WHY Sept 11 happened, and I don't mean why your government failed to protect you, I mean why did the terrorists give up their lives just to spit in your eye.


To quantify blame is difficult but I think the US and it's questionable foreign policy is only a small part of "why" Sep 11 occurred. If the states of the Middle East had their collective shit together there would be no need to pass blame to Israel and their puppet master, the Great Satan. :rolleyes: I would agree that the US is at fault in helping to create an environment that fosters these sort of radicals BUT their home countries, Saudi Arabia, the Sudan, Yemen are more at fault. Their governments CHOOSE to maintain a strong income gap and keep the vast majority in relative poverty if not squalor. The only hope or "salvation" the masses have is their religion prescribed by the clerics who are encouraged to direct blame away from the state and towards that areas favorite scapegoat, Israel and by extension the US. If we're gonna assign blame then let's get to the heart of the problem, the dysfuntional states of the Islamic world.

Fix the problem not the blame ?

The redistribution of wealth and the secularization of the state.

History indicates the only method that can succeed at something so bold is revolution and conflict. The powers that be know this, hence the redirection of blame at Israel and the US. So please people, quit placing the blame entirely at our feet. :)

[EG]

Originally posted by opus512
Change our foriegn policy to reflect reality.

foreign policy had nothing to do with the September attacks of 9/11.

People like Osama Bin Laden want nothing short of Americas destruction.

Why?

America repudiates everything that people like Bin Laden Stand for.

America Has religious freedom . Bin Laden thinks there should only be one religion. America has various religions and is a successful nation.

We have a modicum of succcess while Afghanistan lived in poverty and ignorance under the Taliban.

Foriegn policy has nothing to do with it...

America is a direct repudiation of everything Islamic Fundamentalists believe in and stand for foriegn policy is just an excuse.

[opus512]

Originally posted by EGhadsGhost


foeign policy had nothing to do with the September attacks of 9/11.

People like Osama Bin Laden want nothing short of Americas destruction.

Why?

America repudiates everything that people like Bin Laden Stand for.

America Has religious freedom it. Bin Laden thinks there should only be one religion. America has various religions and is a successful nation.

We have a modicum of succcess while Afghanistan lived in poverty and ignorance under the Taliban.

Foriegn policy has nothing to do with it...

America is a direct repudiation of everything Islamic Fundamentalists believe in and stand for foriegn policy is just an excuse.

Well look wh9o's back, sure has been boring with you gone, everyone agreeing and talking nice and getting along :P :D ;)

But anyway, Osama didn't always want our death and destruction, we used to back him in Afgahnistan against he Soviets. You remember the USSR, don't you? They left, we left, left them all hanging.

[EG]

irrelevant..........

are you suggesting that perhaps we should have had psychics available with crytal balls to tell us that Bin Laden would turn on the US.

has nothing to do with why Osama Bin Laden wants to destroy the United States.

he percieves us as corruptors of his version of Islam. The Western way of life is abhorrent to him with its choices and freedoms.

[opus512]

Originally posted by EGhadsGhost
irrelevant..........

are you suggesting that perhaps we should have had psychics available with crytal balls to tell us that Bin Laden would turn on the US.

has nothing to do with why Osama Bin Laden wants to destroy the United States.

he percieves us as corruptors of his version of Islam. The Western way of life is abhorrent to him with its choices and freedoms.

I'm suggesting we shouldn't make deals with scumbag pieces of shit. We deal with 'lesser of two evils' all the time, and constantly it comes back to haunt us later on. It's bad policy, period.

IMO, Osama is no where near the fanatic some people think he is. There are plenty of stories and references to back that up. Mullah Omar and the Taliban are way, way more fanatical Muslim then Osama and the Al-Queda are. Osama runs a terrorist orginazation, not a religeous group. There are plenty of reports out there that the Taliban didn't even like the Al-Queda, niether did Al-Queda like the Taliban. Taliban thought the AZl-Queda were not devout enough, and the Al-Queda thought the Taliban were back water hicks.

To lay this all on religeous beliefes is short sighted and dangerous, IMO. Does Osama use religious extremests? Damn skippy. Is he one? I don't think so, not on the scale of, say, the one's that flew the planes.

[EG]

Originally posted by opus512


I'm suggesting we shouldn't make deals with scumbag pieces of shit. We deal with 'lesser of two evils' all the time, and constantly it comes back to haunt us later on. It's bad policy, period.

IMO, Osama is no where near the fanatic some people think he is. There are plenty of stories and references to back that up. Mullah Omar and the Taliban are way, way more fanatical Muslim then Osama and the Al-Queda are. Osama runs a terrorist orginazation, not a religeous group. There are plenty of reports out there that the Taliban didn't even like the Al-Queda, niether did Al-Queda like the Taliban. Taliban thought the AZl-Queda were not devout enough, and the Al-Queda thought the Taliban were back water hicks.

To lay this all on religeous beliefes is short sighted and dangerous, IMO. Does Osama use religious extremests? Damn skippy. Is he one? I don't think so, not on the scale of, say, the one's that flew the planes.

At the time Osama was from a rich and well respected Saudi family there skippy.....

Well funny that the Taliban let Osama use their country as base of operations....skippy

Osama not a fanatic.....skippy ?

Well imagine Osama with his followers holding up two fingers as the first plane crashes into the WTC....guess what happens minutes later skippy a second plane crashes into the WTC....then later while watching the news a third finger goes up..a plane crashes into the pentagon... Thank goodness the guys on the fourth plane stopped it

Here is a man that knew what would happen when the planes crashed into the WTC.... was in on the planning that resulted in the death of over 3 thousand people....

sounds like a fanatic to me....skippy

[opus512]

Originally posted by EGhadsGhost


At the time Osama was from a rich and well respected Saudi family there skippy.....

Well funny that the Taliban let Osama use their country as base of operations....skippy

Osama not a fanatic.....skippy ?

Well imagine Osama with his followers holding up two fingers as the first plane crashes into the WTC....guess what happens minutes later skippy a second plane crashes into the WTC....then later while watching the news a third finger goes up..a plane crashes into the pentagon... Thank goodness the guys on the fourth plane stopped it

Here is a man that knew what would happen when the planes crashed into the WTC.... was in on the planning that resulted in the death of over 3 thousand people....

sounds like a fanatic to me....skippy

Whats with the skippy, skippy?

If you haven't read the reports about Osama and Omar not getting along, skippy, not my fault your out of the loop, skippy, go play catch up, skippy.

[EG]

dont have to skippy....

Osama is a fanatic

doesnt matter that him and Omar were not taking warm soapy showers together.....

over 3000 deaths think about it....skippy

[opus512]

Originally posted by EGhadsGhost
dont have to skippy....

Osama is a fanatic

doesnt matter that him and Omar were not taking warm soapy showers together.....

over 3000 deaths think about it....skippy

WB SKIPPY!!!111 :P :D

Cool, you got your opinion, I got mine. I don't think Osama is a fanatic in the sence that you do, Certainly he's a nutbar, but not fanatical, not in the same vien as the Taliban.

[Pier]

Originally posted by dookiebot
We shold make Islam the national religion, ban all other religions, any sharing a different religion than Islam with another American should be executed, and we should bomb Isreal.

That will protect us from terrorists.

Won't protect us from Zionist terrorists. That's how Israel got started ya know, way back in 1947....

[Pier]

Originally posted by PaleDuke


Fix the problem not the blame ?

The redistribution of wealth and the secularization of the state.

History indicates the only method that can succeed at something so bold is revolution and conflict. The powers that be know this, hence the redirection of blame at Israel and the US. So please people, quit placing the blame entirely at our feet. :)

I'm afraid that's beside the point. As you are well aware, even in this country, 2% of the population control 95% of the wealth. And there still exist strong forces to bring prayer back into schools and legislative houses.

The real reason for the economic disparity in the Middle East is, you guessed it, oil. Or more specifically, our (and I mean the United States) gluttonous desire for it. Saddens and angers me that our "need" to buy SUVs helped fund Osama Bin Laden.

[EG]

Originally posted by Pier


I'm afraid that's beside the point. As you are well aware, even in this country, 2% of the population control 95% of the wealth. And there still exist strong forces to bring prayer back into schools and legislative houses.

The real reason for the economic disparity in the Middle East is, you guessed it, oil. Or more specifically, our (and I mean the United States) gluttonous desire for it. Saddens and angers me that our "need" to buy SUVs helped fund Osama Bin Laden.

but fellow Muslims control the oil in the middle east. FYI the US buys aproximately 25 % of the Saudi Oil so that would make those who buy the other 75% more guilty than us wouldnt it if we are basing the blame solely on the money spent on oil purchases.

Maybe the real reason for economic disparity is the governments of the Muslim countries. That the vast majority of the population is poor and uneducated? Do the muslim clerics and governments want most of the people educated? The Israelis dont have any oil yet they seem to be doing okay with thier economy.

So maybe oil isnt the big reason that there is a disparity in Muslim countries...but perhaps the fact that the powers in charge want to maintain the status quo and need a scapegoat? to take the heat off themselves.

[Pier]

Originally posted by EGhadsGhost


but fellow Muslims control the oil in the middle east. FYI the US buys aproximately 25 % of the Saudi Oil so that would make those who buy the other 75% more guilty than us wouldnt it if we are basing the blame solely on the money spent on oil purchases.

Maybe the real reason for economic disparity is the governments of the Muslim countries. That the vast majority of the population is poor and uneducated? Do the muslim clerics and governments want most of the people educated? The Israelis dont have any oil yet they seem to be doing okay with thier economy.

So maybe oil isnt the big reason that there is a disparity in Muslim countries...but perhaps the fact that the powers in charge want to maintain the status quo and need a scapegoat? to take the heat off themselves.

Think about that number, EG, one country out of 100 or so buying 25% of their oil...that's astounding. No matter how you look at it, it's a disproportionate consumption of resources.

As far as the population being uneducated, well, that will cause economic disparity no matter where you are. Look at this country, our literacy rate is dropping precipitously. And the gap between rich and poor is increasing.

Israel, well, bless their souls, but we all know without American aid they wouldn't be around :)

Your last statement though, hits the nail on the head. It's about the people in power wanting to keep things the way they are.

[EG]

Originally posted by Pier
Israel, well, bless their souls, but we all know without American aid they wouldn't be around :)

Your last statement though, hits the nail on the head. It's about the people in power wanting to keep things the way they are.

When Israel first formed they used what was on hand to beat the Arab Countries. We also give aid to the other Arab countries in the nieghborhood. Israel recieved 2.8 billion, Egypt recieved 2.2 billion, palestine recieved 800 million.

some economic facts for you.......

"Unlike any other economy in the Middle East, Israel's has exhibited impressive growth over the years. By way of comparison, Israeli per capita gross domestic product is 14 times larger than Egypt's, 10 times bigger than Jordan's, and 2.5 times greater than Saudi Arabia's -- even with its huge oil resources. "

Israel is the only free market economy in the middle east.

So I think you foriegn aid argument to Israel is kind of weak.


I think my argument that the reason the middle east Arab countries want Israel gone is because of thier success,kind of upsets the apple cart when you have a non-muslim country with a democratic and free market economy enjoying that much success????? People might start asking questions???

Just thin if Isreal were to discover oil?

Hence, we support the Satanic Israel so we are the Satanic US who must be destoyed....wonder if that explains why some of the countries that fund the religious schools that preach hate for the US have an ulterior motive??????

hrmmmm so maybe the powers in charge do want to maintain the status quo and want us as a scapegoat?

so if we bought em all a coke and changed our foriegn policy everything would be ok....NOT

[Pier]

Originally posted by EGhadsGhost


When Israel first formed they used what was on hand to beat the Arab Countries. We also give aid to the other Arab countries in the nieghborhood. Israel recieved 2.8 billion, Egypt recieved 2.2 billion, palestine recieved 800 million.

some economic facts for you.......

"Unlike any other economy in the Middle East, Israel's has exhibited impressive growth over the years. By way of comparison, Israeli per capita gross domestic product is 14 times larger than Egypt's, 10 times bigger than Jordan's, and 2.5 times greater than Saudi Arabia's -- even with its huge oil resources. "

Israel is the only free market economy in the middle east.

So I think you foriegn aid argument to Israel is kind of weak.


Uh, without American aid Israel would have been defeated in the Yom Kippur War and destroyed. And before that the Six Day War, and so on. My point remains. :P
Also, note Israel's biggest resources are technology and tourism, especially with all the migration from the former Soviet Union. Would not be possible to have that kind of climate without....American aid.



I think my argument that the reason the middle east Arab countries want Israel gone is because of thier success,kind of upsets the apple cart when you have a non-muslim country with a democratic and free market economy enjoying that much success????? People might start asking questions???

Just thin if Isreal were to discover oil?

Hence, we support the Satanic Israel so we are the Satanic US who must be destoyed....wonder if that explains why some of the countries that fund the religious schools that preach hate for the US have an ulterior motive??????


Man, I see you're still as stubborn as ever....the reason the Arab countries hate Israel extends way, way, way before free market economies and democratic governments. It's religion. And intolerance. Israel could have the GNP of Bangladesh and it would make do difference.

The reason we're "Satanic" is not just because we support Israel, but because we do it at the expense of the Arabs. Man, I don't think we've ever made reparations for the Iranian jetliner the USS Vincennes shot down, but we were quick to the draw when Iraq lobbed Scud missiles into Israel. The British used to be the colonial power there, but you don't see Bin Laden's terrorists hit Trafalgar Square nowadays.


hrmmmm so maybe the powers in charge do want to maintain the status quo and want us as a scapegoat?

so if we bought em all a coke and changed our foriegn policy everything would be ok....NOT

Why not? We've tried everything else, and we sure as heck know guns aren't the long term answer. Maybe Arafat like Pepsi...

[EG]

Ah an expert on the Yom Kippur war I see

You failed to mention the following facts though....

on the Golan hieghts aproximately 180 Israeli tanks faced 1400 Syrian tanks

Along the Suez 500 Israelis faced 80,000 Egyptians.

The Iraqis lent a squadron of Hunter jets and a division of 18,000 men and several hundred tanks

Saudi Arabi and Kuwait underwrote the war with finincial aid and some military troops

Libya sent Mirage fighters to Egypt and gave 1 billion dollars to Cairo to rearm.

plus aid from Jordan, Morroco, Algeria, Lebanon and the Palestinians.

The Arabs were resupplied by the Soviet Union by sea and air.


Seems when the Arab states were winning the battle Waldhiem /UN and the Soviet Union had little interest in stopping the battle.

The Americans only agreed to resupply battle losses after Oct 9, 1973. The war started on October 6, 1973 I beieve. This was the war that cemented US- Israeli relations. Syria and Egypt were Soviet client states.

Airlifts of military equipment from the US began on 12 and 13 October to counter the Soviet resupply effort.

Prior to this the French were the biggest seller of Arms to Israel. The biggest loan that had been voted by the Congress to the Israelis was $535 million dollars prior to this war.

This war and Soviet support was what made Israel part of the US mideast foriegn policy. The Nixon Whitehouse saw Israel as a counterbalance to the Soviet influence and the Arab Oil embargoes....

Need to brush up on your history Pier........

BTW you are still wrong about US foriegn policy being the big problem here with the terrorists.