Tribes2 fun

[Sharkfood]

Hey guys,

Too bad such a buggy game came out. Luckily, they've gotten a great deal of the junk out of it and just need to hunt down a few last UE errors and do some optimizations.

Here's what I've found works pretty darn well (assuming a decent system- P3-700 or Athlon and above, 256MB is a good idea too.. also assuming you have used the auto updater to update the auto-updater AND Tribes2 to the newest version):

1) Try the 3dfx drivers: 1.04.01 betas.

2) Use OpenGL. Direct3D has way too many texturing errors and is ugly.

3) When using OpenGL, the key is to use 32 bit. 16 bit is broken. 32 bit is the key for OGL.

4) Set 1024x768, 32 bit. In the Textures set 32 bit textures, compression: Nicest.

5) Set Sky to "Skybox only". If you want a little added zest, you can also slide the Viewing Distance a notch or two to the left.

6) Disable MP3 music and set the sound to the low quality (2 channel, 16 bit, 22khz). This seems to impact game performance dramatically as well as longer duration between UE errors.

7) Have 3dfx tools set as follows: FSAA disabled, 32 bit Depth Precision: Fast, Guardband Clipping: Disabled, MipMap Dithering: Enabled, Triple Buffering: Disabled

Enjoy the game. :) I've tried several versions of WickedGL- most crash. I think the stock OGL drivers in the 1.04.01 betas do a great job though.

Upon initial level load, the game will be a slideshow for about 5-10 seconds. After this, framerates will be good. Wait it out and get a feel for it.

Big firefights while looking at many players will have a tendency to half framerates, so if framerates are sub-teen for some busy maps and busy firefights, you can try 960x720 or 800x600. I'm not noticing any difference here with resolution so it's likely a CPU/engine bottleneck issue. Interestingly enough, the same trend happens with a GFUltra and Radeon 64DDR, both to different degrees but framerate indeed cuts more than half in busy moments.

Getting Dynamix to optimize the shortcomings in these areas would benefit all, not just V5 owners. Let's also hope they nail down the last of the random UE errors and get the game to play solid.

Cheers,
-Shark

[jbirney]

Shark,

when those last 3DFX beta's came out in the readme it said that it may help all of those Tribes2 beta testers. Have you been able to see any difference with HSR?

I was so pissed with the way T2 ran on my machine I gave it to a friend and got me a copy of SS (which SS simply blows T2 away IMHO). Just wondering if HSR dose anything..thanks :)

[Shumph]

do those settings clear up the corruption of text in the menus?

[ 04-27-2001: Message edited by: Shumph ]

[msan_msw]

Thanks for the info Shark. I've been holding off on buying the game because of the horror stories I've been hearing. It seems that you 'can' get it playable after all :D I may have to pick it up tonight and give it a go. Again, thanks.

msan

[Kermit]

You play in OGL huh? I found that anytime I had a building on the screen in OGL it ran like crap. I also found that just all around D3D RAN better. You had hight frame rates. And as far as glitches I had far far more in OGL. I am curious as to what OS you are running and what video card you have.

I am running a dual boot between Win 98 and Win 2k and have a Voodoo 4. I am also running the 1.04 WHQL dirvers. However, the settings I use are different.

First off, I run D3d in BOTH os's now. In windows 98 I just dissable Geomerty assist and everything is perfect in D3d. However, Windows 2k took a bit more tweaking.

First, I had to install the 1.04 WHQL drivers from 3dfx. THen, I got online with WIndows update and dowloaded the Microsoft Certified V5 drivers for windows 2k. After those installed, I had to edit the AMDW2kCardProfiles.cs file in the gamedata folder of the game. I just had to change the value for ALLOW D3D to True from False. Then, I just went into the game, turned on D3d and it ran great.

But, anytime I tried to run OGL I had problems whenever I was around a building. D3d Seems to run the best in BOTH OS's.

So, I am trying to figgure out what is different with youre machine from mine.


Also, one more thing I found. The view distance bar really dosen't seem to affect my view distance. I turned it way down, and I see just as far, but the game performs a lot better. I am assuming it has something to do with how far out it details the textures vs. how far you actually see. Because it all looks the same to me. It just runs better.

[Sharkfood]

jbirney-
Have you been able to see any difference with HSR?
Nopers. Seems to ignore all 4 settings of HSR completely in the 1.04.01 drivers. Tried a batch file and the REG tweak to add HSR to 3dfx Tools.


Shumph-
do those settings clear up the corruption of text in the menus?
Text/Menu corruption is GREATLY improved in the 1.04.01's. It still happens when the mouse is over some boxes, but is cleaned up as soon as the mouse is moved away. It doesnt leave "gack trails" like newer drivers. hehe.

msan_ewu-
I may have to pick it up tonight and give it a go.
This game is a CPU and bandwidth (bus and internet) HOG. Sandra tests- I'd recommend 400MB/sec ALU/FPU minimum to play this game to any level enjoyment. It's really NOT fillrate bound one bit. I can flip 800x600x32 or 1024x768x32 and see no difference. It obviously needs a lot of code optimizations. Luckily, you can still have a great 22fps to 55fps gaming experience with it and it looks really cool. :)

Kermit, I'll save your reply and my findings with your suggestions in the next reply. Seems we need to make a nice little T2 FAQ for people with this game as a little bit of elbow grease and I'm right up with my buddy with an Ultra (maybe 4-7 fps behind in some areas) and right on par with my Radeon with the V5 too.

Cheers,
-Shark

[Sharkfood]

Okay Kermit, here we go. I may post a little T2 "mini-FAQ" in another thread outlining some Tribes2 fun. :)

First off, you're a V4, so I really cant comment on what API will effect it the most. I have only 1 V4/4500 AGP system left (P3-650E, 256MB CAS2, Win2K) and havent tried it there yet. Since it's a P3-650E, I doubt it'll have the "UMMPH" for this game, at least until several patches. The other thing is- the V4 doesnt have the fillrate for 32 bit + 1024x768 in heavily textured games. I dont think OGL will be an option for you as 16 bit is way too broken in T2.

My test system is a P3-800EB, 256MB CAS2, V5/5500 running Win98SE, DX8.0a, V5/5500 drivers 1.04.01 Betas from 3dfx.com. V5 speed is stock, P3 speed is stock. Sandra benchmark scores:
407 MB/SEC CPU
470 MB/SEC FPU

I tried disabling Geometry Assist, Flipped T2 to D3D and all seems well. Performance is about 5 to 7% improved. I'm playing both GL and D3D at: 1024x768x32. Textures 32. All other settings constant between the two.

What I'm seeing with D3D is a bit of texture blurring or dithering. I tried textures at 16, 32 and Palettized in D3D, same effect. I can tune OGL to match the visual quality of D3D and performance also increases. D3D also is less CPU dependent- so OGL definately consumes more CPU. Again, P3-750/Athlon or above is a must.

I took a couple screenies to show the framerate differences here:
(If these links dont work, try right-click, COPY and paste into a new browser window. Dunno what's up with Geocities or UBB)

These are in 1024x768x32, full texture detail near the base in my "envelope" level.

Direct3D http://www.geocities.com/foodoshark/tribes2/direct3d.jpg

OpenGL http://www.geocities.com/foodoshark/tribes2/opengl.jpg


--------------------------------------

It's been next to impossible to capture the texture blurring effect in D3D as JPG compression masks it a bit and I dont want to haul up 3MB images. It's QUITE noticeable in gameplay though. Try flipping to see the difference. The game is much sharper and has a more detailed look in OGL. D3D is much smoother looking, but also a tad more blurry. I tested both at LOD Bias of -0.75 for both. Here's a small comparison, but 50% of the effect is lost in JPG. :(

Key points of interest- the far wall to the left of the inventory station and weapon model. Ignore FPS display is misleading as I snapped about 5 or 6 shots concentrating on getting a good spot to illustrate the texture difference. After a snapshot, the FPS drops to 4 FPS and takes a few secs to recover back up.

Direct3D: http://www.geocities.com/foodoshark/tribes2/d3dbase.jpg

OpenGL: http://www.geocities.com/foodoshark/tribes2/oglbase.jpg

I think players with very high-end CPU's have a good balance between IQ and Performance for medium to high-end cards. I'll likely post a mini-FAQ in the days that follow so as anyone with a V5 and a good P3/Athlon can enjoy this game. :)

OGL has some Z-buffer issues in zoom mode also. Footsteps left in the snow in zoom mode have a tendency to "flicker". It looks alot like the decal bug that used to be in Half-Life. Cant determine if it's a driver or game bug. My buddy's Ultra does some funky flicker things in zoom mode too, so this may indeed be a game issue.

Let's just hope the fix the remaining BUGS and can implement a few more optimizations.

Cheers!
-Shark

[<Randell>]

I'll try out your OGl suggestiosn tonight on my Duron650@945. I was waiting for the release of the optimised WickedGL but I'll trust your judgement :)

Look forward to a FAQ

[Kermit]

hhhhmmm.... Yes, I see the blur difference.

But for me, I have some games that don't do well with the 1.04.1 beta drivers. So, for now I am kinda stuck with the 1.04's. And unfortuneatly, until you can figgure out a way to get rid of the 3fps around buildings in OGl with the 1.04 drivers, I will have to stick with d3d. However, I did find a way to use D3d in Win2k on a V5. Which is good, cause I was sick of booting to 98 to play that game.

[<Randell>]

Tried all the above, no dice, UE errors as soon as game tries to start.

Oh well back to slow D3D and waiting for WickedGL.

Thats on WinMe BTW with 128meg Ram.

[AchtBit]

kermit ,use the omega kit 1.0.
those drivers are the slightly modified
1.04.1b version but with a newer icd.
i have absolutly no problems with them and
i run really much games.
i couldn't test tribes 2,yet
but all other games working great.SS has minior gfx bugs with 4 Tbuffers.
just check your icd version number. it should be at least V .0761

&gt;&gt;But for me, I have some games that don't do well with the 1.04.1 beta drivers. So, for now I am kinda stuck with the 1.04's. And unfortuneatly, until you can figgure out a way to get rid of the 3fps around buildings in OGl with the 1.04 drivers, I will have to stick with d3d. However, I did find a way to use D3d in Win2k on a V5. Which is good, cause I was sick of booting to 98 to play that game.&lt;&lt;

[TwiceBlessedMan]

for a great performance boost turn terrain detail down. As sharkfood said this game is cpu bound so removing all those extra poly's should improve your fps. When you do lower the detail you'll get that cool ground morphing effect like in tribes 1. :)

[Kermit]

Randell, what video card are you running? And what settings?

If you are running a V4 or a V5, make sure you are running either the 1.04, or 1.04.1 version of the Drivers. IF you are running the 1.04, Make SURE you have geometry assist dissabled, and then try it in D3d. See what happens.

If you are running the 1.04.1, I assume it will run fine in OGL.

Also, make sure you are running DX 8b. It comes with the game. I think it's 8b... maybe 8a. But if you are running any older version of the 3dfx drivers, you could have problems because they are not DX8 compliant.

[tron3dfx]

kermitt why run DX8 at all? What game has to have it? DOWN with DX8!

&lt;the amish 3dfxr - still running DX7.0a&gt;

[Kermit]

Tribes 2 needs it.

Sorry.

[tron3dfx]

it does? ohmygod, that means I'll have to install it when I get my new 'puter built, noooooooooooooooo :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

&lt;the amish computer user&gt;

[GrimFaceOfReality]

Originally posted by tron3dfx:
kermitt why run DX8 at all? What game has to have it? DOWN with DX8!

&lt;the amish 3dfxr - still running DX7.0a&gt;

MW4, Giants, Tribes2, etc.

[multigl]

&gt;&gt;"MW4, Giants, Tribes2, etc."&lt;&lt;

i heard etc. was the Coolest game ever. if you havent tried it, go out and buy a copy of etc. :D :D

[Blighter]

Uuuh.. I have MW4 and I didn't know it uses dx8? Well what ever.. Hey what is IQ?
:rolleyes:

[ 05-04-2001: Message edited by: Blighter ]

[msan_msw]

Image Quality?

[DABSON !~]

IQ = Image quality.... Or Intelligence...
Or having a big Salmi.

[Santiago Rex]

http://www.warpstorm.com/ubb/iamwithstupid.gif

[Sharkfood]

Originally posted by tron3dfx:
it does? ohmygod, that means I'll have to install it when I get my new 'puter built, noooooooooooooooo :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Yo Tron!

Dont worry man, Tribes2 will be good if your new rig has some "cajones" for a CPU.

DX8.0 works fine and dandy- just be sure to use the 1.04.01 drivers for 98, and the 1.03 drivers for Win2K (both are at 3dfx.com). No real change in performance that I've noticed and everything I've thrown at it plays great.

Tribes2 has gone from "okay" to "suckful" on lower end systems. The first BETA I was playing fine on a P3-650E with a V3-3000 AGP. Now, a P3-800 and V5 is really the barebones minimum. With this combo (or higher CPU) it plays pretty nice, aside from a few bugs, memory leaks and the occasional UE error. I can play OGL or D3D at 1024x768 32 bit, with OGL be a tad slower but sharper, and D3D being much smoother looking and a bit snappier in some spots.

Either way, I'm pumping 22 to 60 fps in the game. Each new patch that comes out seems to only effect framerate consistency and nothing more. I'd settle for lower overall framerate if they could simply tune the engine to have more consistent framerate across the boards. And no, contrary to zealots across the web- this isn't a Voodoo specific issue. My Radeon 64 also does this.. My buddies Ultra based Athlon also does this. It's the game engine and nothing more. Jetpacking up and swinging down to spinfusor incoming heavies near your base on ANY VIDEOCARD will produce sporadic fits of lower framerates.

I think NVIDIA came in too late with their cash. Dropping cash on their laps with the expressed desire of "add more polys to sell our hardware" came too late for them to do this AND also put a few months of optimizations in to engine at the same time. And now that they've laid off a ton of programmers, it's anyone's guess if the remaining staff has the software prowess to get any optimizations in there.

Cheers,
-Shark

[<Randell>]

I'm running a V5 on a Duron650@945 with WinMe, DX8.0a, 1.04.01 betas, geometry assist disabled. D3D was fine, but I cannot get OGL to work at all.

[Blighter]

Oh ok thanks, Image Quality, got it :D

:rolleyes:

[NuAngel]

I'm gonna give this all a whirl, Shark... thanks man - I just got T2 last night. Anyways, one question (though I havn't tryed this yet) --- why do I want MIPMAP DITHERING ENABLED?? Won't that create a slow down?

Thanks!

Nu

[TwiceBlessedMan]

there is a new patch due out this week that should improve performance on v3 and v5 based cards. The dynamix team mentioned they would be working with wicked3d to help come up with a solution.