View Full Version : JD power and assoc. Long term Quality survey
Wow... And lexus has surpassed Mercedes. I mean... it looks like the E class has slipped considerably.
Here's the lilights:
J.D. Power long-term quality survey
Problems per 100 vehicles
Manufacturer Score
Porsche 193
Toyota 196
Honda 215
Nissan 258
BMW 262
General Motors 264
Subaru 266
Average 273
Ford 287
DaimlerChrysler 311
Mitsubishi 339
Hyundai 342
Isuzu 368
Volkswagen 378
Suzuki 403
Daewoo 421
Kia 509
As it has for the past several years, Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus luxury unit topped the brand rankings with 163 problems per 100 vehicles, followed by Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.'s Infiniti brand, GM's Buick unit, Porsche AG and Honda Motor Co. Ltd.'s Acura brand.
Meanwhile, American made cars... GM has finally stepped up to the plate. They are the only american baised co to make the above average list
Ivers noted that GM had never performed above the industry average in prior surveys and that the survey backed up claims by GM executives that they were matching the quality of Japanese automakers.
"This year, we see them [GM] sort of turn a corner," he said. "They've begun to show evidence of closing that gap" with foreign automakers.
Now the kick in the pants to Mercedes
Perhaps the study's most shocking results involve DaimlerChrysler. Since the 1998 merger, Daimler executives have contended that Mercedes-Benz's knowledge of how to build quality vehicles would be used to improve the Chrysler brands.
But Chrysler, Dodge and the now-defunct Plymouth brand all outranked Mercedes, which had 318 problems per 100 vehicles. Ivers said Mercedes' troubles were concentrated in its M-Class sport utility vehicle and its E-Class sedans, which accounted for roughly half its sales.
"The M-Class has had a lot of problems since its launch," Ivers said. "The rate of deterioration on the E-Class is greater than on any other vehicle in the industry."
Top 10 Brands
These nameplates had the fewest problems per 100 vehicles after 3 years.
Brand Score
Lexus 163
Infiniti 174
Buick 179
Porsche 193
Acura 196
Toyota 201
Cadillac 209
Lincoln 212
Honda 218
Mercury 240
Top Vehicles
These vehicles had fewest problems in their segments.
Vehicle type Top ranked
Premium luxury Lexus LS 400
Entry-level luxury Lexus ES 300
Luxury SUV Lexus RX 300
Premium sports car Porsche 911
Full-size car Mercury Grand Marquis
Compact car Toyota Corolla
The manufacturers performing worst in the survey were Volkswagen, Suzuki, Daewoo and Kia. Those names, along with Ford's Land Rover brand, were also the worst-ranked brands in the survey. Land Rover was second-worst with 441 problems per 100 vehicles. Kia had 509.
Take note all you Volkswagen owners. My wife wanted one... I'm kinda thinking we'll get something else now.
Someone move this to the car forum please. I forgot we had one. ANd I know someones just going to link me. bastages.
GrimFaceOfReality
07-08-03, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Kermit
Kia 509
Kia 509
Kia 509
And Stryker still wonders why i bought a Honda :P
Honda 215
Average 273
Mitsubishi 339
Ambience
07-08-03, 05:37 PM
Car Forum
i think its fine to keep this thread here, it's more general then car-specific...
Ambience
07-08-03, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Trip
i think its fine to keep this thread here, it's more general then car-specific...
Says Trip before the move. :D
Ambience
07-08-03, 05:51 PM
BTW you have to take these numbers in perspective. How many Porches were purchased compared to Mitsubishis?
I'd rather see a per capita figure.
Wait, it is per 100
Still seems like the numbers are skewed.
jaymind
07-08-03, 10:46 PM
Alright, were's Audi. I'm been thinking about either an Audi A4, Passat ( after seeing that, I'm not so sure now) or a BMW 325xi. Were's the BMW's also. How is it that Porsche and VW, made by the same company, can have so wildly varied scores? Of course, VW makes Audi also so I'm interested to see what that's like.
Originally posted by Ambience
BTW you have to take these numbers in perspective. How many Porches were purchased compared to Mitsubishis?
I'd rather see a per capita figure.
Wait, it is per 100
Still seems like the numbers are skewed.
Nope, it's by each 100 cars purchased... so, by the figures, every honda should have 2 problems with it, while every mitshibishi should have 3-4 problems with it. Of course we don't know how serious the problems are, but more then likely they aren't minor things.
Originally posted by Trip
And Stryker still wonders why i bought a Honda :P
Considering the highest marks came from Acura lol..
Honda will always be known for it's cheap reliability, never questioned that.
Originally posted by Trip
Nope, it's by each 100 cars purchased... so, by the figures, every honda should have 2 problems with it, while every mitshibishi should have 3-4 problems with it. Of course we don't know how serious the problems are, but more then likely they aren't minor things.
They arent minor things? Well hell, if those are all major problems, im never buying another car!
Originally posted by Stryker
Considering the highest marks came from Acura lol..
Honda will always be known for it's cheap reliability, never questioned that.
Acura is a honda-built brand, less problems probably because of their expensive nature and people are less likely to "push the limit" on expensive toys ;).
Originally posted by Stryker
They arent minor things? Well hell, if those are all major problems, im never buying another car!
says you mr. grinding transmission :P.
I'll admit, my car has 2 problems.
The interior lightbulb blew out :mecry:
and my glow-temperature/fan speed light went out :mecry: (Probably related to the wiring job we did on the cd player, not saying it was bad, it was good, but i think when we were changing it around we mighta not got a good connection somewhere.)
I was just saying that because the problems could range from minor (interior lighting shorting out, poor-quality molding), to moderate (synchronizers, electrical problems, little engine things) to severe (Engine goes out, transmission dies, ignition system dieing, things breaking)
If you are looking for specific brands read the article. They break it down.
Audi is mentioned. I just didn't quote it.
Originally posted by Kermit
If you are looking for specific brands read the article. They break it down.
Audi is mentioned. I just didn't quote it.
Link?
Ambience
07-09-03, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Trip
Nope, it's by each 100 cars purchased... so, by the figures, every honda should have 2 problems with it, while every mitshibishi should have 3-4 problems with it. Of course we don't know how serious the problems are, but more then likely they aren't minor things.
In that case I'm guessing faulty lamps, or switches... I'm wondering if there is a difference between the likelyhood of a Porche owner replacing their own bulbs as opposed to a cheapskate Honda owner.
It still seems like this is as funked up way to measure quality. Perhaps a better way would be to rate the cost of repairs.
Originally posted by Ambience
Perhaps a better way would be to rate the cost of repairs.
Rotfl, Honda would be teh owned.
Originally posted by Stryker
Rotfl, Honda would be teh owned.
Cause they last forevah! :P
If it was by repair cost, the list would be flipped, Kia would be on top, and lexus would be last. Cost usually relates to the quality of the object ;). Of course there would be some changes (I bet mercedes would still be at the worst of the list), but thats mostly how it would go.
Ambience
07-09-03, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Trip
Cause they last forevah! :P
If it was by repair cost, the list would be flipped, Kia would be on top, and lexus would be last. Cost usually relates to the quality of the object ;). Of course there would be some changes (I bet mercedes would still be at the worst of the list), but thats mostly how it would go.
Not really, the estimator at the body shop told me a neat story about some panels of a Geo Storm (I think it was a storm) ended up costing more than a truck that had most of the front end replaced.
Originally posted by Ambience
Not really, the estimator at the body shop told me a neat story about some panels of a Geo Storm (I think it was a storm) ended up costing more than a truck that had most of the front end replaced.
Hey, storms are power-horses... and like i just said, there are always exceptions to the rules :).
That list is way off from what repairs I see come in my shop. In some cases I repair more of the cars that did good on the list than the ones that did bad.
Going by the list there should be a lot of considerations People with top end cars seem to be able to offord the upkeep where is the lower end cars that are cheaper tend to have people that can't offord regular maitnence on them.
I have never seen Porches outgo repairs more than most of the cars on the list. Porches seem to break a lot but they also tend to get run very hard. Thats what I see alot of. I have also seen Hondas outlast BMW's. A lot of it depends on how the vehicles were cared for.
If you go by cost of repair The german cars would be on top of the list. Some of the Asian imports would be lower on the list with domestic.
Another good piece of info to keep in mind. My uncle had a Lexus that was in a wreck the body had $2600 worth of damage yet to repair the SIR system due to the wreck was going to cost around $6000. :eek: Airbags can cause cars to be totaled because they cost so much to fix.
Can you tell me why the heck honda engines are so expensive? lol. a replacement for my car is 5.5k, i've seen V8's for 1000...
Supply has the most to do with it. Even going domestic V8's have always been cheaper than say V6's. Unless you get into exotic set setups like DOHC's or Hemi's ect. Parts and labor has some to do with it. A lot of import engines require special procedures when rebuilding them which in turn can take longer, require,special tools, parts, and equipment ect.. which in turn makes them more expensive to build than a pushrod V8. Same goes with V8's, some stock production V8's have been know to cost upward in the 20K range to sell. Yet if you think about it. On average a lot of Honda engines unless abused or riced with NOS :snicker: tend to last double the life of most V8's so in turn cost is not much higher once you have replaced two V8's to one Honda engine.
Also is that a new engine or remanufactured? That still seems high if it is a rebuilt engine.
brand spanking new engine, no rebuilt/remade stuff :).
Thats JUST with parts too. no labor.
I get what your saying now tho.
Ambience
07-11-03, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by BCRICH
That list is way off from what repairs I see come in my shop. In some cases I repair more of the cars that did good on the list than the ones that did bad.
Going by the list there should be a lot of considerations People with top end cars seem to be able to offord the upkeep where is the lower end cars that are cheaper tend to have people that can't offord regular maitnence on them.
I have never seen Porches outgo repairs more than most of the cars on the list. Porches seem to break a lot but they also tend to get run very hard. Thats what I see alot of. I have also seen Hondas outlast BMW's. A lot of it depends on how the vehicles were cared for.
If you go by cost of repair The german cars would be on top of the list. Some of the Asian imports would be lower on the list with domestic.
Another good piece of info to keep in mind. My uncle had a Lexus that was in a wreck the body had $2600 worth of damage yet to repair the SIR system due to the wreck was going to cost around $6000. :eek: Airbags can cause cars to be totaled because they cost so much to fix.
Glad to have a 2nd on my thoughts.
Originally posted by Kermit
Wow... And lexus has surpassed Mercedes. I mean... it looks like the E class has slipped considerably.
That's what happens when Dodge gets into the mix.
Originally posted by Kermit
Take note all you Volkswagen owners. My wife wanted one... I'm kinda thinking we'll get something else now.
Definately. VWs have been pretty crappy lately.
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