Do Aliens Exist?

[Drakkenfyre]

Good companion post to Slacker's ghost thread, lol,

I personally believe they exist, we are simply one little planet in one Galaxy, one in millions upon millions upon millions upon millions of other Galaxies in this Universe, to think that we are the only lifeforms in that entire vast expanse is beyond arrogant,

what do you say?,

-Drakk )))

[Ibanez]

If we were evolutionised from life, then yes, we are the only life form.

If we were created from a higher being, I strictly doubt it.

[Cop]

Yes! Or this would be the biggest waste of space ever!

[Cop]

Originally posted by Ibanez
If we were evolutionised from life, then yes, we are the only life form.

If we were created from a higher being, I strictly doubt it.

Don't you mean the other way around?

[Ibanez]

Originally posted by Cop


Don't you mean the other way around?

Nope.

[Cop]

I mean, it it's evolution, then why can't life evolve anywhere else?
I'd sooner think that when everything is "created", it would just be us (and maybe a control group, lol)

[Ronhel]

Aliens exist in Virginia I seen the pics of some orbs some where I'll see if I can find them on Google for ya.

[Slacker]

rofl @ control group comment.

I tend to believe that it's just us, at least from the Christian standpoint. But then again, I concede that's there's stuff out there that can't be readily explained by religion, like the dinosaurs.

In other words, I just don't know.

[marianozz]

Originally posted by Ibanez
If we were evolutionised from life, then yes, we are the only life form.

If we were created from a higher being, I strictly doubt it.

mmm... Why couldnt there be another higher being in another galaxy that may have created another civ?

[DUKE HARDKNOCK]

Click.

[Ibanez]

I think some of you are confusing my post.

What I mean is, the odds of another planet that is as perfect as the earth, is almost mathematically impossible. If you study the earth (and I mean REALLY look into how the earth is designed, the way it works, all the elements it needs to substain life, etc), and our solar system (milkyway) entire environment - Scientist will all pretty much come to the same conclusion - If all this happen by a big bang, then a evolutionary process, then its beyond miracle, and extremly doubtfull theres anything else in the unvierse like it.

Creation, however (a creator, a higher being, etc) you leave alot of possibility's open. When you put in the possibility of an Intelligent designer, then anything possible. The odds that other life like ours exist, is bound to be more, since the designer, or the supreme being, will have the power to beable to do it, perfectly.

That what I ment.
BTW - This topic is entirely speculation, no real hard proof facts on anything. So don't jump the gun on me.

[bt_refugee]

ALIEMS!!!!!

If we can exist then why the hell should "aliens" not...

[Drakkenfyre]

Originally posted by Ibanez
I think some of you are confusing my post.

What I mean is, the odds of another planet that is as perfect as the earth, is almost mathematically impossible. If you study the earth (and I mean REALLY look into how the earth is designed, the way it works, all the elements it needs to substain life, etc), and our solar system (milkyway) entire environment - Scientist will all pretty much come to the same conclusion - If all this happen by a big bang, then a evolutionary process, then its beyond miracle, and extremly doubtfull theres anything else in the unvierse like it.

Let me introduce you to the Drake Equation, written by Frank Drake in 1961, it focuses on on the factors which determine how many intelligent, communicating civilizations there are in our galaxy,

N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL

"The equation can really be looked at as a number of questions:

N* represents the number of stars in the Milky Way Galaxy

Question: How many stars are in the Milky Way Galaxy?
Answer: Current estimates are around 200 billion.

fp is the fraction of stars that have planets around them

Question: What percentage of stars have planetary systems?
Answer: Thanks to advances in technology, new planets are being discovered every month. Within a few years we may have a reasonably accurate estimate. For now we'll say 20% (a standard estimate given by many including Frank Drake).

ne is the number of planets per star that are capable of sustaining life

Question: For each star that does have a planetary system, how many planets are capable of sustaining life?
Answer: If you base it on our solar system you might say 3 planets could possibly support life - Venus, Earth, and Mars. There is also the chance that one or more of Jupiter's moons could support life. If our system is typical the answer may be between 3 and 5.

fl is the fraction of planets in ne where life evolves
Question: On what percentage of the planets that are capable of sustaining life does life actually evolve?
Answer: Current guesses range from 100% (where life can evolve it will) down to close to 0%.

fi is the fraction of fl where intelligent life evolves

Question: On the planets where life does evolve, what percentage evolves intelligent life?
Answer: Guesses range from 100% (intelligence is such a survival advantage that it will certainly evolve) down to near 0%.

fc is the fraction of fi that communicate
Question: What percentage of intelligent races have the means and the desire to communicate?
Answer: Who knows? Let's guess 10% to 20%

fL is fraction of the planet's life during which the communicating civilizations live
Question: For each civilization that does communicate, for what fraction of the planet's life does the civilization survive?
Answer: This is the toughest of the questions. If we take Earth as an example, the expected lifetime of our Sun and the Earth is roughly 10 billion years. So far we've been communicating with radio waves for less than 100 years. How long will our civilization survive? Will we destroy ourselves in a few years like some predict or will we overcome our problems and survive for millennia? If we were destroyed tomorrow the answer to this question would be 1/100,000,000th. If we survive for another 10,000 years the answer will be 1/1,000,000th.

When all of these variables are multiplied together we come up with:

N the number of communicating civilizations in the galaxy.

The real value of the Drake Equation is not in the answer itself, but the questions that are prompted when attempting to come up with an answer. Obviously there is a tremendous amount of guess work involved when filling in the variables. As we learn more from astronomy, biology, and other sciences, we'll be able to better estimate the answers to the above questions.",

now, we are not talking about aliens contacting us, we are talking about existence to begin with so you could leave a little bit off at the end of the equation, but food for thought,

-Drakk )))

[EG]

hrmmmm

with all those galaxies with all those planets the odds have to be that there is more life out there.

[msan_msw]

Originally posted by Slacker
...that can't be readily explained by religion, like the dinosaurs.

Can't be explained by religion or can't be explained by the Bible? Can't be explained by the Bible or can't be explained by Christianity...? Can't be explained by Christianity or can't be explained by the people who tell us what's in the Bible...?

My point here is that the Bible has been spun to ridiculous levels by people through "formal interpretation"... "by experts"...."in the best interest of the church"....

If you take out social constructs of importance then the dinosaurs are just animals like any other animals..... Things just build from there. I think it's a fallacy to think that normal processes can't be accounted for by religion, even Christianity. It's the "interpretation" an the misguided "perceptions" that have caused issues. I don't want to get into an Evolution debate in an aliems thread but the reason evolution and church are so at odds is due to historical reasons and the majority of those are based on power and influence.

Which....

Brings me to my thought on aliems. I believe that aliens do exist and not only do exist but are pretty prevalent in the universe. I think that there are some that are in very early stages of evolution and some that are in very progressed stages of evolution. How they interact with others is based on the level of evolution and development within that "system." I think the more progressed the civilization the less likely it will interact with others as well.... and those would be the ones that would be coming down to see us, lol. Why would any alien civilization interact with us if they already have the capability of intergalactic travel?

However, I don't believe this issue revolves around our construct of religion and evolution. I think it contains both intertwined and both discretely separate...... but better informed.

[marianozz]

Originally posted by msan_msw
Why would any alien civilization interact with us if they already have the capability of intergalactic travel?

Why not? if they are that evolved, it would most probably because of their curiosity, the one that lead them to discover all the things that enabled to get them here in the 1st place... so... if theyre so curious, why wouldt they check us out? just for kicks....

[msan_msw]

Originally posted by marianozz




Why not? if they are that evolved, it would most probably because of their curiosity, the one that lead them to discover all the things that enabled to get them here in the 1st place... so... if theyre so curious, why wouldt they check us out? just for kicks....

My theory....

There is a lot of stuff in theory and in pop media about this. Take the "Prime Directive" as an example. IMHO, if a civilization is advanced enough to get here then the probably understand what would happen if they made themselves known...

- Religious groups go nuts. Religions around the world, confronted with this new knowledge, become irrational. People who are closely tied to religion are left with all kinds of "abandoned by God" feelings to "They are God" feelings.

- Discrimination. We can't even get along between races how do you think we'd get along with "grays."

- They have nothing to gain as far as technology. The one thing they DO have to gain is different levels of thought outside their own.... a kind of "I didn't think of that" way of looking at things. The best thing they could do would be to stay out of the way and let us keep developing and see what we come up with. (i.e. msan's "novelty theory").

- Ethics: See Prime Directive. They could do great harm to us just by introducing themselves. Religions, economics, social structures, political theory, on and on would instantly be thrown into chaos with the introduction of aliems

- Information: Our social structure is based heavily on information. What if they told us Evolution is true and proved it? What if they had cures for every disease and we overpopulated and war broke out left and right?

Anyway, IMHO any alien society that really cared about the Earth would not introduce themselves. I think it's safe to say we as humanity couldn't handle it. Just look at Richard Simmons. Imagine how he would react if he found out there were aliens, lol.

[Cop]

Originally posted by Slacker
there's stuff out there that can't be readily explained by religion, like the dinosaurs.

Easy explanation: at the time the bible was written no archeologists were around, no dinosaur bones uncovered. For the people of that time those animals never existed because there wasn't anything left of them they could take into account...

Hence another explanation why the bible is just a book filled with stories...

[Drakkenfyre]

Originally posted by msan_msw


Can't be explained by religion or can't be explained by the Bible? Can't be explained by the Bible or can't be explained by Christianity...? Can't be explained by Christianity or can't be explained by the people who tell us what's in the Bible...?

My point here is that the Bible has been spun to ridiculous levels by people through "formal interpretation"... "by experts"...."in the best interest of the church"....

What gets me is the people who claim the Bible has remained unchanged since it was written (or actually, spoken), it started out being a verbal record before it was commited to paper, so in that time variations and changes certainly occured, hell, you can line up 20 people in a circle, whisper something into someone's ear, and have them repeat it to the person next to them, and by the time it gets back to you it can be completely different, I have an aunt who doesn't believe the Earth is millions and millions of years old, and when you bring up Dinosaurs, she swears up and down that Dinosaurs walked the Earth with man, are mentioned in the Bible, and the reason they went extinct is because Noah didn't take them on the Ark (if you think I am kidding, I am not, she actually believes that),

-Drakk )))

[Swilo]

Who says other life in the universe would be carbon/hydrogen/oxygen based like it is on earth?
Taking that into consideration you just raised the probability of extraterrestrial life by about 100000%
To me it's just a matter of time before we start invading other planets, because when I watch an alien invasion movie I always think "Hey, WE'RE the ones who show that [territorial, fear] behaviour!"