ATI X800 review

WedgieMan · 05-04-04, 12:17 PM

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040504/index.html

/me starts saving up.

Despoiler · 05-04-04, 12:23 PM

A link to a full list of reviews.

http://www.anandtech.com/#22108

All I have to say is that its nice to see the performance race heating up again. Its only good for consumers when the 2 super powers are battling. I still gotta give the crown to ATI because it has better performance with AA and AF. Its weak in the OGL area though. I hope its just some driver optimization that needs to be done.

I am definately shaking the couches out to get one.

Lollan · 05-04-04, 12:24 PM

Drool...

mellotron · 05-04-04, 03:13 PM

Well the performance in newer games make the new ATi offerings very nice. My only concern is the limitations of games using SM3.0 down the road and how it'll affect performance as well as IQ. Perhaps Ail can shed a little light.

Jimby · 05-04-04, 03:20 PM

Bah the NVidia card probably wont be that fast on full PS3.0 anyway since its their first release. By the time PS3.0 is fully used, ATi will have something out that will kick @ss.
I say its a good year and a half before we start seeing some good PS3.0 games.

babystinky · 05-04-04, 04:01 PM

Interesting to see these cards on PCI-Express?
I wonder what the performance ratio's will be?

Mole · 05-04-04, 04:04 PM

Nvidia who?

Flywest · 05-04-04, 04:11 PM

Yeah performance in shaders intensive games and in DX games in general is incredible. Man to check out my card compared to this one on the adnandtech graphs I had to look at the complete bottom. 9700 PRO.

Apoch003 · 05-04-04, 04:13 PM

AIL shed a little light??? Two weeks ago he was telling everyone to save up money for then next gen. And what did we get? Faster dx9. BAH!!!
Call me when something REALLY interesting shows up. Like a video card that's so fast, it travels time!

babystinky · 05-04-04, 04:15 PM

Come on Apoch

You already know all video cards travel time

Mole · 05-04-04, 04:16 PM

Looks like the 6800U can beat the Radeon X800 series in a whopping 2 tests! Call of Duty and Aquamark.

Ailuros · 05-05-04, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apoch003

AIL shed a little light??? Two weeks ago he was telling everyone to save up money for then next gen. And what did we get? Faster dx9. BAH!!!
Call me when something REALLY interesting shows up. Like a video card that's so fast, it travels time!

So you would have considered a NV40 if the box would state DX10 on it? You're either kidding me or you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

dx9.0 incorporates more than one graphics generations and you better start getting used to it, since the story won't change with DX-Next.

Yes SM3.0 is one generation ahead of SM2.0 and it could have easily made up for a different API.

In the end any kind of wizzbang feature is worthless for you and only useful for developers; you get twice R360 performance across the board with either R420 or NV40. What the hell else do you want to see?

Ailuros · 05-05-04, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil_Messiah

Well the performance in newer games make the new ATi offerings very nice. My only concern is the limitations of games using SM3.0 down the road and how it'll affect performance as well as IQ. Perhaps Ail can shed a little light.

PS3.0 doesn't seem to take much effort to get implemented in current games with PS2.0 or PS2.x routines. The result will be most likely be just performance advantages, to what degree I have no idea yet.

However if a developer today wants to start dealing with extra long shaders and can handle dynamic branching in such a manner that it won't slap back in his face, the developing platform to use for him is definitely a NV40. Longer shaders + branching means hundreds of more instructions and inevitably higher IQ. Presupposition would be to start developing based on those from scratch.

Vertex texturing in VS3.0 and some advanced physics or displacement mapping that's possible through those are probably the most interesting part of SM3.0. Again for developer interest and for those that want to push the envelope in games that'll appear on shelves in more than 2 years from now.

It is important whoever gets to developers first with added features and performance of SM3.0 currently is IMHO less relevant at the moment as long as a developer can get at least 10 fps in 640*480; that's the lowest threshold for "unlimited resources" in DX-Next anyway.

SM4.0 compared to SM3.0 is virtually SM3.0+unlimited resources; not so "unlimited" as you can see above. DX-Next starts introducing other features apart from shaders in the I/O Model, Topology, Tesselation direction. Latter two can be easily treated with a Programmable Primitive Processor (high performance HOS, large hardware cost) or just get some funky implementation through the shaders (low performance checkbox feature HOS, minimal hardware cost); depends on what IHVs intend to do.

If it's another "it's fine as long it's in the featurelist" venture from the big two, then advanced HOS and inevitably true and highly flexible displacement mapping will get once more postponed into the future.

Here's to say that DM was introduced on paper by Matrox as a first hardware based sollution; their EMBM (actually a Bitboys patent AFAIK) had tough luck. It was the only bump mapping method that had dependant texture reads and by the time it got supported in hardware on a wider scale it was rendered redundant by pixel shaders. True hardware displacement mapping might end up having the same luck in the end, since there's no global IHV support for it for the time being.

Apoch003 · 05-05-04, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ailuros

So you would have considered a NV40 if the box would state DX10 on it? You're either kidding me or you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

dx9.0 incorporates more than one graphics generations and you better start getting used to it, since the story won't change with DX-Next.

Yes SM3.0 is one generation ahead of SM2.0 and it could have easily made up for a different API.

In the end any kind of wizzbang feature is worthless for you and only useful for developers; you get twice R360 performance across the board with either R420 or NV40. What the hell else do you want to see?

I thought it was obvious I was kidding.

Ailuros · 05-05-04, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apoch003

I thought it was obvious I was kidding.

Couldn't tell; hence the either/or second sentence above.

How bout a smiley once in a while?

Rainbow · 05-06-04, 01:43 PM

"The power consumption of the X800 XT is about the same as that of its predecessors in 3D applications. Additionally, the cards require only one auxiliary power connector and don't need an especially potent power supply like the GeForce 6800 Ultra does. Even the cooler has shrunk a bit, reducing the card's overall weight and ensuring that it would fit even into a mini-ITX case."

Impressive

babystinky · 05-06-04, 03:30 PM

Rainbow

Yeah the ATI solution this time again does seem to be route to go if one upgrades.
The power alone gives a very good reason.

I think the pro version is the card to get per~ ratio/price.

LaMont Sanford · 05-06-04, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainbow

"The power consumption of the X800 XT is about the same as that of its predecessors in 3D applications. Additionally, the cards require only one auxiliary power connector and don't need an especially potent power supply like the GeForce 6800 Ultra does. Even the cooler has shrunk a bit, reducing the card's overall weight and ensuring that it would fit even into a mini-ITX case."

Impressive

Meh. Do I have a wimpy psu or case? No. So do I care if ATIs part runs in little junk boxes? No.

As usual, there's nothing wrong and much right about ATIs new cards, but there are definitely other things to consider this time:
1. Will there be PS3 games this year, and what will the difference be?
2. Will Doom3 come out this year, and if so, will it be significantly better on nVidia due to their relationship?
3. Will HL2 see the light of day and be significantly better on ATI?
4. What's up with the current DX9 PS2 benches? Are they running mixed mode on nVidia (maybe bad) or straight FP32 (probably good)?

incandescent · 05-06-04, 09:05 PM

1. Will full use of SM3.0 be sufficiently fast on the GF6800? If SM3.0 is used in games, will there be SM2.0 fallbacks, without reducing quality?
2 + 3. ATI & NVIDIA are probably waiting eagerly for these games to hit. Doom3 is going to be a lot of positive press for the 6800, and HL2 is going to be a lot of positive press for ATI
4. If they are mixed mode, as image quality suggests, jumping to full precision could potentially hurt performance for the GF6800, widening the gap even further.

OtakingGX · 05-06-04, 09:38 PM

Isn't Far Cry nVidia's heralded SM 3.0 title? I remember reading some news a while back about some ATi guy saying it looked exactly the same as 2.0 code.

Anyway, the X800 Pro slaps the 6800 Ultra around a bit in that benchmark. Then the X800 XT Platinum Edition just bends it over and makes it cry.

05-04-04, 12:17 PM	#1
WedgieMan GNOMG! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: USA Posts: 9,352	ATI X800 review http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040504/index.html /me starts saving up.

05-04-04, 12:24 PM	#3
Lollan Resistance is futile! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 43,703 Blog Entries: 1	Drool... __________________ struttin down da hood in my brand new flip-flops bustas won't know what hit 'em when da bomb drops coke in my pants and a fistful of rsi ain't no thang to lay 'em down when i stroll by homeys should invest in a linux-distro their windows be all fogged with nasty shit fo sho watch em scatter as i switch into freak mode cus they ain't got shit for anti-virus code got no time to talk gotta run from da cops slippin and fallin cus of my goddamn flip-flops my goddamn flip-flops uhuh uhuh

05-04-04, 03:13 PM	#4
mellotron Registered User Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: jacked into cyberspace Posts: 10,109	Well the performance in newer games make the new ATi offerings very nice. My only concern is the limitations of games using SM3.0 down the road and how it'll affect performance as well as IQ. Perhaps Ail can shed a little light. __________________ Fortunately, I have a Ph.D. in pseudo-science from a reputable degree mill, therefore I am qualified to explain this as well as this. Join the freaks IRC.RIZON.NET:6667 #OFF-TOPIC

05-04-04, 03:20 PM	#5
Jimby Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,638	Bah the NVidia card probably wont be that fast on full PS3.0 anyway since its their first release. By the time PS3.0 is fully used, ATi will have something out that will kick @ss. I say its a good year and a half before we start seeing some good PS3.0 games. __________________ U.S. Customs Officer: Beat it, you puck-slapping maple suckers. Canada Customs Officer: Take a hike, you Shatner-stealing Mexico touchers.

05-04-04, 04:01 PM	#6
babystinky Registered User Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: toronto Posts: 3,886	Interesting to see these cards on PCI-Express? I wonder what the performance ratio's will be? __________________ Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say,'We see.' Therefore your sin remains.

05-04-04, 12:23 PM	#2
Despoiler Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 309	A link to a full list of reviews. http://www.anandtech.com/#22108 All I have to say is that its nice to see the performance race heating up again. Its only good for consumers when the 2 super powers are battling. I still gotta give the crown to ATI because it has better performance with AA and AF. Its weak in the OGL area though. I hope its just some driver optimization that needs to be done. I am definately shaking the couches out to get one.

05-04-04, 04:04 PM	#7
Mole Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: TX. Posts: 36,668	Nvidia who? __________________ I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

05-04-04, 04:11 PM	#8
Flywest Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Québec, Canada Posts: 3,440	Yeah performance in shaders intensive games and in DX games in general is incredible. Man to check out my card compared to this one on the adnandtech graphs I had to look at the complete bottom. 9700 PRO.

05-04-04, 04:13 PM	#9
Apoch003 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 26,697	AIL shed a little light??? Two weeks ago he was telling everyone to save up money for then next gen. And what did we get? Faster dx9. BAH!!! Call me when something REALLY interesting shows up. Like a video card that's so fast, it travels time! __________________ It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames. -- Harry Hill

05-04-04, 04:15 PM	#10
babystinky Registered User Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: toronto Posts: 3,886	Come on Apoch You already know all video cards travel time __________________ Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say,'We see.' Therefore your sin remains.

05-04-04, 04:16 PM	#11
Mole Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: TX. Posts: 36,668	Looks like the 6800U can beat the Radeon X800 series in a whopping 2 tests! Call of Duty and Aquamark. __________________ I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

05-06-04, 01:43 PM	#16
Rainbow Chief Counter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 15,457	"The power consumption of the X800 XT is about the same as that of its predecessors in 3D applications. Additionally, the cards require only one auxiliary power connector and don't need an especially potent power supply like the GeForce 6800 Ultra does. Even the cooler has shrunk a bit, reducing the card's overall weight and ensuring that it would fit even into a mini-ITX case." Impressive

05-06-04, 03:30 PM	#17
babystinky Registered User Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: toronto Posts: 3,886	Rainbow Yeah the ATI solution this time again does seem to be route to go if one upgrades. The power alone gives a very good reason. I think the pro version is the card to get per~ ratio/price. __________________ Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say,'We see.' Therefore your sin remains.

05-06-04, 09:05 PM	#19
incandescent Steaming Pile of Bureaucracy Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 3,192	1. Will full use of SM3.0 be sufficiently fast on the GF6800? If SM3.0 is used in games, will there be SM2.0 fallbacks, without reducing quality? 2 + 3. ATI & NVIDIA are probably waiting eagerly for these games to hit. Doom3 is going to be a lot of positive press for the 6800, and HL2 is going to be a lot of positive press for ATI 4. If they are mixed mode, as image quality suggests, jumping to full precision could potentially hurt performance for the GF6800, widening the gap even further. __________________ welp

05-06-04, 09:38 PM	#20
OtakingGX Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,726	Isn't Far Cry nVidia's heralded SM 3.0 title? I remember reading some news a while back about some ATi guy saying it looked exactly the same as 2.0 code. Anyway, the X800 Pro slaps the 6800 Ultra around a bit in that benchmark. Then the X800 XT Platinum Edition just bends it over and makes it cry.